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Comments re: previous LJ discussion....
May. 2nd, 2001 11:00 amFor start of issue, see Jessie's journal:
[Ok, so LJ managed to ERASE my entire post and I'm trying to remain calm to I can retype this as best as I can.....]
Jessie said: "you mention that id'ing as a dyke might deny the "realness" of a transgender man's manhood. my knee jerk reaction is - it's up to them to affirm themselves"
I totally agree with this statment, though I have definitely fallen into this predicament before. The current person I'm with (my G.E., or girlfriend-equivalent, since we don't like the terms gf and bf) is a queer-identified female. She previously didn't identify totally as a dyke, but was definitely on track to primarily dating women. Then I came along and ruined everything. Ha. We talked about early on how we both tended to out each other to other people, sometimes without each other's permission in an effort to remain queer. She would tell people I was trans, in an effort to show that she hadn't "gone straight" or that her dating women wasn't a "queer phase". And I would tell people that she's not a dyke and identifies as bisexual and has had previous male sexual patrners. She didn't want to be seen as straight, and I didn't want to be seen as a lesbian.
Before I came out as trans, I was very much a BDOC (big dyke on campus) and even around town a little bit. So when I came out about transitioning and made the name change, I wanted to carefully negotiate through every land mine that came with my situation. No, not all lesbians want to be men. No, not all butch lesbians want to be men. No, not all butches are trans. No, not all trans butches want to physically transition. No, I'm not just a lesbian who wants to be called "he".
I didn't want to negate anyone's experience or have people draw automatic conclusions. This happened again when I started dating my g.e. -- I felt compelled to tell people she's not a "lesbian" and hated when people made that assumption. I would get defensive and say "If she was a lesbian, than why is she dating me??" Which is true. But it's also not that black and white.
I also find that my need to identify a certain way depends on who I'm around. If we're with people who don't know I'm trans, than I feel we play a very fag/dyke dynamic, to make ourselves queer. But if I'm with people who know I'm trans, esp those who knew me pre-transition, I'm more likely to act out a hetero-queer dynamic, where she's a femme top and I'm a wussy boy. It's a fine line, and they sound similar, but I feel they are different. Either way, it's an effort to make ourselves feel as queer as possible, and to be validated.
Also, sometimes when I get overwhelmed by feelings of "no, I'm a guy! See me as a guy! treat me as a guy!", I stop myself and say, wait, no I'm not. I'm a queer boy. A transguy. I like that I'm different from bio-guys. I don't even necessarily wish I was born male, because although certain problems would be alleviated, new ones would occur. I think I can even say that given choice, I would choose to be a transguy. Of course, this is day, which is a good day, because I'm not contemplating hacking off my chest with a kitchen knife, or hiding under the covers from the entire world, or having an anxiety attack regarding the amount of money I'll have to spend to feel "natural". But I guess in the end, I'd rather run the risk of being a suicidal-prone transguy than a homicidal-prone bioguy. What can I say -- I'm a giver.
Going back to the comments regarding attractiong to transguys -- I think it's perfectly ok to say you're attracted to trannyguys but not bio-boys. Even though I have an occasional fantasy about hetero-girls, I'm primarily attracted to queer women and queer men (and queer trannies!). So I understand you not being attracted to dick-centered hetero-male sexuality, which is what over 90% of men have, because of social conditioning. BUT, one must be careful when talking about being attracted to trannyguys, but then not being attracted to them when they transition and become "too masculine" -- these are 2 different things. You're not actually attracted to trannyguys then -- you're attracted to masculinity/androgyny in alternative forms which many pre-transition trannyguys possess.
I think I've lost all structure to this post -- again......
[Ok, so LJ managed to ERASE my entire post and I'm trying to remain calm to I can retype this as best as I can.....]
Jessie said: "you mention that id'ing as a dyke might deny the "realness" of a transgender man's manhood. my knee jerk reaction is - it's up to them to affirm themselves"
I totally agree with this statment, though I have definitely fallen into this predicament before. The current person I'm with (my G.E., or girlfriend-equivalent, since we don't like the terms gf and bf) is a queer-identified female. She previously didn't identify totally as a dyke, but was definitely on track to primarily dating women. Then I came along and ruined everything. Ha. We talked about early on how we both tended to out each other to other people, sometimes without each other's permission in an effort to remain queer. She would tell people I was trans, in an effort to show that she hadn't "gone straight" or that her dating women wasn't a "queer phase". And I would tell people that she's not a dyke and identifies as bisexual and has had previous male sexual patrners. She didn't want to be seen as straight, and I didn't want to be seen as a lesbian.
Before I came out as trans, I was very much a BDOC (big dyke on campus) and even around town a little bit. So when I came out about transitioning and made the name change, I wanted to carefully negotiate through every land mine that came with my situation. No, not all lesbians want to be men. No, not all butch lesbians want to be men. No, not all butches are trans. No, not all trans butches want to physically transition. No, I'm not just a lesbian who wants to be called "he".
I didn't want to negate anyone's experience or have people draw automatic conclusions. This happened again when I started dating my g.e. -- I felt compelled to tell people she's not a "lesbian" and hated when people made that assumption. I would get defensive and say "If she was a lesbian, than why is she dating me??" Which is true. But it's also not that black and white.
I also find that my need to identify a certain way depends on who I'm around. If we're with people who don't know I'm trans, than I feel we play a very fag/dyke dynamic, to make ourselves queer. But if I'm with people who know I'm trans, esp those who knew me pre-transition, I'm more likely to act out a hetero-queer dynamic, where she's a femme top and I'm a wussy boy. It's a fine line, and they sound similar, but I feel they are different. Either way, it's an effort to make ourselves feel as queer as possible, and to be validated.
Also, sometimes when I get overwhelmed by feelings of "no, I'm a guy! See me as a guy! treat me as a guy!", I stop myself and say, wait, no I'm not. I'm a queer boy. A transguy. I like that I'm different from bio-guys. I don't even necessarily wish I was born male, because although certain problems would be alleviated, new ones would occur. I think I can even say that given choice, I would choose to be a transguy. Of course, this is day, which is a good day, because I'm not contemplating hacking off my chest with a kitchen knife, or hiding under the covers from the entire world, or having an anxiety attack regarding the amount of money I'll have to spend to feel "natural". But I guess in the end, I'd rather run the risk of being a suicidal-prone transguy than a homicidal-prone bioguy. What can I say -- I'm a giver.
Going back to the comments regarding attractiong to transguys -- I think it's perfectly ok to say you're attracted to trannyguys but not bio-boys. Even though I have an occasional fantasy about hetero-girls, I'm primarily attracted to queer women and queer men (and queer trannies!). So I understand you not being attracted to dick-centered hetero-male sexuality, which is what over 90% of men have, because of social conditioning. BUT, one must be careful when talking about being attracted to trannyguys, but then not being attracted to them when they transition and become "too masculine" -- these are 2 different things. You're not actually attracted to trannyguys then -- you're attracted to masculinity/androgyny in alternative forms which many pre-transition trannyguys possess.
I think I've lost all structure to this post -- again......
