One of my signs of the apocalypse.

[raybear]

Last night after discussions of the possiblity of being a house boy and on my way to pick up Damon so we could hang out before he leaves town for two weeks, I passed a greasy diner quasi-Sonic's/Checkers type restaurant that had a sign out front with the following announcement:

TRY OUR NEW GHETTO FRIES

I nearly had an aneurysm and crashed the car. The use of that word will be the death of me, I swear. What the fck does that sign even mean? And why, oh why, do people use that word in such flippant privileged stupid white ways?

P.S. I was not even driving through a "ghetto".

Comments

[bigfatmama.livejournal.com]

i'll bite.

it interests me that you harp on this. you are white. from a suburb in the south, yes? if not set me straight. so how is your advocating not paternalistic?

when i go to chicago what i like to see, from the time i hit the freeway out of the airport is the overwhelming evidence of african american culture. the sign above, although i don't know where or how it was presented, amuses me. it affirms what i love about chicago. they got black people there. i grew up in what passes for inner city in oregon, in a racially diverse neighborhood. i have african american relatives, i am native american and irish. but even that corner of oregon is so small, and now where i live the brown people are in such a terrible minority, that when i see ghetto fries or black people selling toothpaste i just grin. i think, they must be good.

so white boi, with so many privileges the day is too short to list them! taking on the use of the word ghetto, although well-meaning, might not be the best use of your irritated energies. and this is not the best of mine. i love you raybear, i love your journal, your honesty (sorry about no anal sex for hbo!) and i do want to see you get paid for your dj prowess but i don't really enjoy your diatribes about the word ghetto. i don't see where you should own that privilege to speak about it.

[raybear.livejournal.com]

oh mama, you have given me much to think about. and i want to think about it and write you with more, but for now i will just say that my diatribes against the use of the word 'ghetto' always have to do with white people using the word, usually inaccurately and just as funny slang. and yes, perhaps it's paternalistic for my white male self to school other white people, but who else is going to do it? or should do it?

more later....

ibigfatbitch

[bigfatmama.livejournal.com]

how zen are you? thank you for not kicking my pmsing ass! i know you could! now that i said my say you can go back to raising consciousness.

Re: ibigfatbitch

[writeli.livejournal.com]

Oh! never mind. i understand that one. ;-)

[redrider.livejournal.com]

but who else is going to do it? or should do it?

this is always the key question for me, esp. when I'm having discussions around drag & race & what it means to perform transracial drag & so on. because, yesh, i feel like being a white girl doing this work may mean that I lack some sort of "authentic" 1st-person experience with the limits of this sort of performance (e.g., the audience-imposed limitations faced by some kings of color who want to perform music by white artists) -- but then, it also seems *so* wrong to place the burden of education/representation/agitation on non-white kings.

xoxo a.

yes, but you must admit she has a point...

[dommeyourass.livejournal.com]

i don't know how much on point this is, but it reminds me of how uncomfortable i was when you kept referring to the bartender at bob the chef's in boston as [your] "man." to quote [when handed a drink] "thanks, my man."

not to put you on the spot, and i hope you know i say this lovingly (and hope you do the same with me, which you have with the "awww suki suki" issue) but just because you grew up in atlanta at a black high school, with predominantly black friends, doesn't mean you have permission to say things that may be deemed as racist or patronizing if said by another white person, nor are you an authority on racism specifically with regard to how whites should educate other whites.

that all been said. i give you an A++++ for effort.

you're sitting in my living room right now, but I don't want to interrupt the movie with this...

[raybear.livejournal.com]

Re the Boston incident: Point taken. I certainly try to be aware of how my behavior looks on it own, without the person knowing my intentions or history or knowledge or experience or how many friends of color I have. I come across this in regards to music and hip-hop, as you may imagine. Sometimes I get too familiar and forget the outside perspective, so I don't mind at all having possible interpretations of my behavior pointed out. In fact, I prefer it (no matter how flushed and embarassed I get temporarily with white liberal guilt and whatnot).

I certainly don't think I'm the one and only authority on racism when it comes to whites educating other whites. But, to be real, there such a severe lack of it in all spheres of my existence, which is probably why I speak loudly and often on the subject. And I don't mean to imply I'm not willing to engage in discussion with other whites about deconstructing white racism, because I am. It just happens so rarely and I'm THRILLED when people want to push my buttons to because it helps me grow and change and learn.

Re: you're sitting in my living room right now, but I don't want to interrupt the movie with this...

[riotdrake.livejournal.com]

this has absolutely nothing to do with racism or ghetto, sorry to put it in here... but you grew up in atlanta??

Re: you're sitting in my living room right now, but I don't want to interrupt the movie with this...

[raybear.livejournal.com]

yep. Stone Mountain/Decatur were my stomping grounds. you?

Re: you're sitting in my living room right now, but I don't want to interrupt the movie with this...

[riotdrake.livejournal.com]

born at grady! i grew up mostly in alpharetta area.. moved a ton-ton-ton as a kid, ended up graduating from hs right outside of athens. but the 3 years before i moved up to boston i lived in decatur. i miss it sometimes, but sometimes not. i have sort of a love/hate relationship with the area.. heh

Not angry, just discussion points...

[writeli.livejournal.com]

Wait a second though...Why can't (or shouldn't) a "white boy from a suburb in the South" be able to recognize what's wrong with the word ghetto in that use? And if he recognizes it, why should he do anything but speak out against it? If the only people who have the right to speak out against ignorance are those on the receiving end of it, then where is the place for advocacy in our culture - the idea of speaking for those who may not be present, or empowered, to speak for themselves? Or worse, if people have no right to speak out against wrongs that aren't against them, then do we sit around and watch everything go to hell in a handbasket?

In fact, you made a comment that I could have taken offensively: when i see ghetto fries or black people selling toothpaste i just grin. i think, they must be good 1. the fact that you're doing exactly what makes the word offensive - thinking ghetto=black. 2. reacting to the commodification of negative stereotypes of black people (black people were used for the selling of toothpaste because the idea was that the white teeth looked so starkly white next to black skin.) And what raybear is talking about seeing isn't the evidence of black culture you reference apropos Chicago, but the exploitation and commodification of and utter lack of respect for black culture. When I see those things that make you grin, they make me cringe and angry. Oh, and I'm black, so I have the right.

i'm not re-writing this, though i'm worried the tone make come out stronger than i mean too. sorry if it does, i just get really passionate about this. But really, just discussion points. :-)

Re: Not angry, just discussion points...

[dommeyourass.livejournal.com]

good points.

[lenny-wick.livejournal.com]

now where i live the brown people are in such a terrible minority, that when i see ghetto fries or black people selling toothpaste i just grin. i think, they must be good.

Maybe the idea is, where she lives, people of color are so rare, even seeing them in advertising is thrilling. I can understand the gist of that, even if it does ignore a long and ignoble history of using goony images of black people to sell product (rice to toothpaste). Not many people know this history, but it's there, and is still filtering out in its most egregious Stepin Fetchit, Amos N Andy forms.

The "ghetto fries" thing just sounds up to no good, especially as it sounds like it's a white suburb in the south. That especially sounds like it's up to no good. The action of poaching on inner city black life (which I'm guessing is the meaning, and not a reference to Nazi pogroms) is so fraught and complicated, there's no sense in getting into it here, but white America can be awfully fucked up.

As a white guy who has spent more time in the barrio than in the ghetto, I have no idea what ghetto fries are.

Why has Elvis popped into my head? "In the Ghetto," that treacly, soft-hearted condescention of a song.

[clockwatcher.livejournal.com]

not that this adds to the discussion at all, but all day, i've been thinking of the dolly parton version of the elvis song thanks to this discussion.

[bigfatmama.livejournal.com]

Maybe the idea is, where she lives, people of color are so rare, even seeing them in advertising is thrilling.

so sad and true. i'm like, see! folks are trying to sell stuff to black people! so they are here! a community of toothpaste buying black people! and ghetto fries falls outside of this i'm afraid. and the pms was/is riding me hard today. and i've read raybear on this one before and where i totally am absolutely in favor of the white folks taking on the education about racism etc. i was not thinking of it like that.

AND dommeyrass has a great point because i do the same thing. as raybear and the thanks my man thing. but a close relationship with and respect for african american people and culture does not an african american make. and i'm over my damn head trying to stay legit in my own racial regions.

so i take the hand slap and give ray respect and take my lesson learned here today too. and you know ray, you have some cool friends.

equally

[dommeyourass.livejournal.com]

good points.

[kisha.livejournal.com]

WTF ARE GHETTO FRIES????
Jesus Christ...

[milosh.livejournal.com]

i totally saw that sign and remarked on it to my parents (who were in the car with me), and then abby saw the sign and remarked on it to me later that day.

will you go in and find out what they are??

[bigfatmama.livejournal.com]

someone needs to try the ghetto fries. i nominate raybear. and damien for protection. and i'd like pictures.

Ghetto

[qvalentine.livejournal.com]

I used the word ghetto in one of my recent posts because I was hoping to get you riled up. I like your rants. And I kinda don't think that you need some sort of authority to make them. But then again, I'm just a white girl from working class New Jersey, and I think all your opinions count for something.

But ghetto fries? what the hell?

Re: Ghetto

[raybear.livejournal.com]

I used the word ghetto in one of my recent posts because I was hoping to get you riled up.

Next time I'll just drop you from my friends list. ;)

AWE!

[qvalentine.livejournal.com]

OUCH!

you saucy saucy boy.

[katemosey.livejournal.com]

At the very least, your "ghetto" diatribes get people talking.
I like that. A few weeks ago, the Boy and I had a few friends over. One is a black man living in L.A. and teaching middle school. Anyway, We were talking about something and somehow the issue of race came up (i think it had to do with a David Cross skit, but I'm not sure).
One of our friends piped up and said, "Why does anyone care about this? Like we're going to change anything talking about this in the suburbs."

The statement peeved me on many levels, not the least of which was that she prefers not to EVER talk about anything convtroversial because she's got too many issues to list ... needless to say, her misguided statement irritated me, because when people do talk about such things, people think and when people think, things and attitudes are more likely to change.

So, although I have mixed feelings about the word, "ghetto" thank you for putting it out there none the less. I always get a lot out of people's opinions on the subject.
And for the love the love of holy relics and anal sex, what the HELL are "ghetto fries?"
You must solve this mystery for those of us not living in the greater Chicago area raybear!

[raybear.livejournal.com]

I have some mixed opinions myself regarding the word, especially since I love language and development and recreation of meanings. I am fascinated by slang and think it has important value in communication as well as reflecting social culture.

Which is probably WHY I'm obsessed with (white) people using the word, because I think it reveals hidden concepts in our brain. People throw the word around liberally, thinking it's okay because the face-value of the word doesn't have anything to do with race. But our cultural associations DO, therefore the term is loaded. It's unintentionally revealing of people's experiences and perceptions and assumptions, I think.

interesting

[sean7232.livejournal.com]

I was going to comment here, but it started sounding more like a journal update than a post. So check out my thoughts on this there instead so I don't clutter up your response page.