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raybearI started this yesterday and finished it today. Longest LJ entry ever. Here's the breakdown, including numbers for those who haven't checked the stats on my recent poll.
First question: How many friends/close acquaintances in your life are people of color?
Almost half of folks answered "3-5". One-fifth of people said "0-2" -- I intentionally put people who knew no people of color with people who had one or two friends, because I don't think having a token is much different than having none -- either way it's pretty limited daily exposure to relationships with non-white people.
More than a quarter answered "too many to count", but almost half of those people are people of color.
Second question: How many black people have been in your house?
This question was inspired by a joke in "Kings of Comedy": If you can't count the number of black people who've been in your house, than you're racist.
(Of course, that's sort of a trick statement, since most everyone is racist.) But the point of the question is to make people pay attention -- I know some people will say "I don't see color and I don't pay attention to people's race" but those are usually the folks who's only black visitor was the cable guy.
Interestingly enough, the vote was split very differently from the first question: about a third said "0-2" and a third said "too many to count". The other third was split pretty evenly between "3-5" and "6-10". For people who qualified their answer by saying they've had few people over period, let me ask the follow up question -- what's the percentage of non-white people who've been in your house?
Third and fourth question: Use of lingo and number of hip-hop albums.
About a third of people straight up said "no" they don't use such slang (which is an unintentional lie in some case, because I've SEEN the words in your livejournal!), but 2/3 of of y'all own less than 10 albums. And skipping ahead a question, some of the same people say they use the n-word with the "a" ending. I'm NOT saying that if you own every 2pac and Biggie bootleg you're 'qualified' to talk the talk -- I just think there are some interesting correlations.
Fifth Question: Sitting next to the black guy on the bus.
Almost half admitted to choosing the seat next to the teenager to prove a point. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone, even if I'm slightly ashamed. But this poll isn't about shaming anyone -- I just wanted honesty. Almost a one-fifth said they would sit next to the white woman -- again, I appreciate folks answering honestly and I'm glad that people are aware of their actions. Over one-third of the pollers claimed to have no idea what I was talking about. Somehow I find this hard to believe. My purpose for this question was not to see if people would choose "white or black" -- that's pretty much already been studied and the results show that EVERYONE unconsciously picks white people as the standard for normal, average, and beautiful, due to the mass cultural conditioning through the media, history books, etc. etc. This question was more about people realizing that they have this instinct, and whether they intentionally act against it. Now, the whole motivation of "proving a point" is sort of the question of white liberal guilt thrown in for good measure. But I don't necessarily think it's a horribly evil thing to do -- go against the deeply buried instincts. Many folks claim their motivation is to avoid teenagers, and I don't doubt that's a factor, but I think it's a conscious factor -- we weren't taught to hate/fear/loathe teenagers from a young age. With the question, I wanted to know if people ever confront the unconscious fears on a daily or weekly basis. I mean, even if you would always sit next to the white woman, at least be aware that you're always sitting next to the white woman and don't pretend it's a happy accident or coincidence.
Sixth question: A white person is claiming to not own any opinions on race because they're from a town/area with virtually no non-white people. How would you place them as a white person?
Okay, I know I said there are no "right answers", but I think I lied. I think the last answer is the most accurate in general. All white people are racist. (Some say all people are racist, but I'm not qualified to make that statement at this time, so I won't.) I don't think being from an all-white area necessarily makes you more or less so - that can only be determined on a case by case basis. But 70% of people agreed with me and chose the same answer.
Seventh question: The N-word.
Answers were pretty spread out across the board, with more people leaning towards the "rap lyrics" quoting. I must say, I'm quite surprised that people actually chose the answer "no, never ever ever ever ever". I'm sure intentions were good, but I can't help but wonder if there's perhaps a strong element of denial.
Thanks for everyone who answered. I will conclude my unofficial analysis with a story of my own personal relationship with "the n-word".
For those who don't know, I'm from the South. My parents are from a smallish town in southern Mississippi and I've never heard them say the word ever. But other people in my family have, I'm sure. I can barely remember instances from early childhood, but no specific.
I honestly have no idea when/where I first learned it's meaning, but I always knew it was wrong to say. When I got to middle school, I first started to get slightly de-sensitized because peers would say it all the time to other black students. I'm sure there might have been incidents of white students being down and using it, but I can't remember any ramificiations. I do remember the birth of the term "whigga", which were white students who hung out mostly with black students and "dressed like a black person". I never liked that word because I didn't like the original word -- by the time I was 13 it was already ingrained in me that it was okay for black people to use it but never never never for white people.
I have no memory of saying it as a child, but I'm sure it happened at least once. Every kid says it once. Every kid says every new word once.
In college I took classes on reclamation of language, specifically how it relates to fag and dyke. I learn about the power of the n-word and read about why people use it and why people still loathe and push for abolishing it's use in all forms. I can understand and relate to both sides, but I learn to have no opinion -- it's not my fight and I have no right to say how non-white people should use it. But I believe that no white person should say it. Ever. I mean, if it's in the context of a personal conversation and there's an understood agreement between the white and black person, whatever, that's fine (though I can't help but think there are still power dynamics not being adressed). In reality, I would say it might be more okay to say it with the "er" ending in the context of an academic setting or discussion of the word itself, but even if you're reading a letter to the editor to The Source aloud to your buddies, don't say it. It's not meant for you. Can you maybe handle this? That there's something off-limits to a white person?
But that doesn't mean I'm not human.
I've said the word somewhat recently. When I wasn't alone. In fact, Damon was in the room. I quoted a rap lyric while trashtalking during a video game, and in the heat of the moment, didn't edit it but quoted exactly like the song. I felt pretty embarassed and upset with myself. Obviously. I apologized profusely to Damon, and he was like "hey, as long as you realized that you said it.....and don't do it again". I tried not to overdo it with my apologies, for fear of making him the recipient of all my white confessions, as some way of absolving myself. I made a joke about needing to put in some wholesome music and that I've been listening to too much 'hardcore' stuff. This happened about 2 1/2 years ago.
For a week the word floated in my head. I rolled it around in my mouth, felt it on my teeth and tongue. I sometimes whispered it privately, trying to figure out why it had actually slipped out of the locked cage in my mind. I thought about how I hear the word hundreds of times on a given day if I'm listening to lots of hip hop . I started to fear that the music had influenced me, had corrupted me, that Tipper was right.
But it was a human reaction. Anything that's been repressed for so long is bound to spring out eventually. My girlfriend at the time made me angry, because she seemed to shocked and appalled by my actions, claiming that she works everyday at firing people for using such language. I was put off by her lack of self-analysis, here inability to see her own potential to do what I did. I'm certainly not proud or glad that I used it as an epithet, even if it was towards an alien of indeterminent race on a video game, but the learning experience has been invaluable. It knocked me off my pedestal, shaking me into realizing that I'm no different and I can't escape this culture and the best I can do is learn how to navigate in a positive, thoughtful, conscious manner. I'm not afraid to own my behavior, because we're all capable of the exact same potential. I'm just afraid I'll stop paying attention, which is what I'm always fighting for -- keeping my eyes and mind open to what's really going on and what the real motivations are.
First question: How many friends/close acquaintances in your life are people of color?
Almost half of folks answered "3-5". One-fifth of people said "0-2" -- I intentionally put people who knew no people of color with people who had one or two friends, because I don't think having a token is much different than having none -- either way it's pretty limited daily exposure to relationships with non-white people.
More than a quarter answered "too many to count", but almost half of those people are people of color.
Second question: How many black people have been in your house?
This question was inspired by a joke in "Kings of Comedy": If you can't count the number of black people who've been in your house, than you're racist.
(Of course, that's sort of a trick statement, since most everyone is racist.) But the point of the question is to make people pay attention -- I know some people will say "I don't see color and I don't pay attention to people's race" but those are usually the folks who's only black visitor was the cable guy.
Interestingly enough, the vote was split very differently from the first question: about a third said "0-2" and a third said "too many to count". The other third was split pretty evenly between "3-5" and "6-10". For people who qualified their answer by saying they've had few people over period, let me ask the follow up question -- what's the percentage of non-white people who've been in your house?
Third and fourth question: Use of lingo and number of hip-hop albums.
About a third of people straight up said "no" they don't use such slang (which is an unintentional lie in some case, because I've SEEN the words in your livejournal!), but 2/3 of of y'all own less than 10 albums. And skipping ahead a question, some of the same people say they use the n-word with the "a" ending. I'm NOT saying that if you own every 2pac and Biggie bootleg you're 'qualified' to talk the talk -- I just think there are some interesting correlations.
Fifth Question: Sitting next to the black guy on the bus.
Almost half admitted to choosing the seat next to the teenager to prove a point. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone, even if I'm slightly ashamed. But this poll isn't about shaming anyone -- I just wanted honesty. Almost a one-fifth said they would sit next to the white woman -- again, I appreciate folks answering honestly and I'm glad that people are aware of their actions. Over one-third of the pollers claimed to have no idea what I was talking about. Somehow I find this hard to believe. My purpose for this question was not to see if people would choose "white or black" -- that's pretty much already been studied and the results show that EVERYONE unconsciously picks white people as the standard for normal, average, and beautiful, due to the mass cultural conditioning through the media, history books, etc. etc. This question was more about people realizing that they have this instinct, and whether they intentionally act against it. Now, the whole motivation of "proving a point" is sort of the question of white liberal guilt thrown in for good measure. But I don't necessarily think it's a horribly evil thing to do -- go against the deeply buried instincts. Many folks claim their motivation is to avoid teenagers, and I don't doubt that's a factor, but I think it's a conscious factor -- we weren't taught to hate/fear/loathe teenagers from a young age. With the question, I wanted to know if people ever confront the unconscious fears on a daily or weekly basis. I mean, even if you would always sit next to the white woman, at least be aware that you're always sitting next to the white woman and don't pretend it's a happy accident or coincidence.
Sixth question: A white person is claiming to not own any opinions on race because they're from a town/area with virtually no non-white people. How would you place them as a white person?
Okay, I know I said there are no "right answers", but I think I lied. I think the last answer is the most accurate in general. All white people are racist. (Some say all people are racist, but I'm not qualified to make that statement at this time, so I won't.) I don't think being from an all-white area necessarily makes you more or less so - that can only be determined on a case by case basis. But 70% of people agreed with me and chose the same answer.
Seventh question: The N-word.
Answers were pretty spread out across the board, with more people leaning towards the "rap lyrics" quoting. I must say, I'm quite surprised that people actually chose the answer "no, never ever ever ever ever". I'm sure intentions were good, but I can't help but wonder if there's perhaps a strong element of denial.
Thanks for everyone who answered. I will conclude my unofficial analysis with a story of my own personal relationship with "the n-word".
For those who don't know, I'm from the South. My parents are from a smallish town in southern Mississippi and I've never heard them say the word ever. But other people in my family have, I'm sure. I can barely remember instances from early childhood, but no specific.
I honestly have no idea when/where I first learned it's meaning, but I always knew it was wrong to say. When I got to middle school, I first started to get slightly de-sensitized because peers would say it all the time to other black students. I'm sure there might have been incidents of white students being down and using it, but I can't remember any ramificiations. I do remember the birth of the term "whigga", which were white students who hung out mostly with black students and "dressed like a black person". I never liked that word because I didn't like the original word -- by the time I was 13 it was already ingrained in me that it was okay for black people to use it but never never never for white people.
I have no memory of saying it as a child, but I'm sure it happened at least once. Every kid says it once. Every kid says every new word once.
In college I took classes on reclamation of language, specifically how it relates to fag and dyke. I learn about the power of the n-word and read about why people use it and why people still loathe and push for abolishing it's use in all forms. I can understand and relate to both sides, but I learn to have no opinion -- it's not my fight and I have no right to say how non-white people should use it. But I believe that no white person should say it. Ever. I mean, if it's in the context of a personal conversation and there's an understood agreement between the white and black person, whatever, that's fine (though I can't help but think there are still power dynamics not being adressed). In reality, I would say it might be more okay to say it with the "er" ending in the context of an academic setting or discussion of the word itself, but even if you're reading a letter to the editor to The Source aloud to your buddies, don't say it. It's not meant for you. Can you maybe handle this? That there's something off-limits to a white person?
But that doesn't mean I'm not human.
I've said the word somewhat recently. When I wasn't alone. In fact, Damon was in the room. I quoted a rap lyric while trashtalking during a video game, and in the heat of the moment, didn't edit it but quoted exactly like the song. I felt pretty embarassed and upset with myself. Obviously. I apologized profusely to Damon, and he was like "hey, as long as you realized that you said it.....and don't do it again". I tried not to overdo it with my apologies, for fear of making him the recipient of all my white confessions, as some way of absolving myself. I made a joke about needing to put in some wholesome music and that I've been listening to too much 'hardcore' stuff. This happened about 2 1/2 years ago.
For a week the word floated in my head. I rolled it around in my mouth, felt it on my teeth and tongue. I sometimes whispered it privately, trying to figure out why it had actually slipped out of the locked cage in my mind. I thought about how I hear the word hundreds of times on a given day if I'm listening to lots of hip hop . I started to fear that the music had influenced me, had corrupted me, that Tipper was right.
But it was a human reaction. Anything that's been repressed for so long is bound to spring out eventually. My girlfriend at the time made me angry, because she seemed to shocked and appalled by my actions, claiming that she works everyday at firing people for using such language. I was put off by her lack of self-analysis, here inability to see her own potential to do what I did. I'm certainly not proud or glad that I used it as an epithet, even if it was towards an alien of indeterminent race on a video game, but the learning experience has been invaluable. It knocked me off my pedestal, shaking me into realizing that I'm no different and I can't escape this culture and the best I can do is learn how to navigate in a positive, thoughtful, conscious manner. I'm not afraid to own my behavior, because we're all capable of the exact same potential. I'm just afraid I'll stop paying attention, which is what I'm always fighting for -- keeping my eyes and mind open to what's really going on and what the real motivations are.
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Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 01:52 pm (UTC)Well, then you place more importance on racial-based genetic characteristics than I do. The color of a persons skin, to me, is of equal importance as the color of their hair, the shape of their face, the size of their ears, the amount of hair on their head.
And if I can't provide examples of how people of color play a significant role in my life, how else am I supposed to take issue against a claim that I AM racist by virtue of my skin color? What other less 'well-worn' tactics do I have to refute the charge?
As an urban dweller in a city where there is no racial majority (whites make up 42.1% of Houston's population), I don't think I could function at all if I were racist... if I let a person's racial genetics play a part in if/how I interacted with them, I'd have to barracade myself in my apartment and never come out.
I'm a gay white male in a city full of people who aren't. And I truly feel that I can cherish the non-gay, non-white, and none-male people in my life, despite being different from all of them.
I know I"m supposed to be working, but..
Date: 2002-08-22 02:21 pm (UTC)Well, then you place more importance on racial-based genetic characteristics than I do.
You have the luxury of not placing importance on them because you are white. She can't just pretend that color doesn't matter because she sees it every time she looks in the mirror, and moreover, she sees it in the faces of people who treat her differently because of it.
That's all fine and good that skin color is as important to you as hair color, but be careful to not minimize the impact skin color has for people in this country and in this world. And it's rather whitecentric (trying to avoid the word "racist" here) to insist on people of color not acknowledging that is DOES make a difference. Even if we're all morally opposed to race making a difference, the simple fact is that is DOES.
Being around people of color does not automatically make you NOT racist. I think that's the point she's trying to make with the reference to listmaking. (Also, I'm sure there are plenty of racist folks in Houston, just like in every other city, and racial composition has nothing to do with it.)
Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 02:24 pm (UTC)The color of a persons skin, to me, is of equal importance as the color of their hair, the shape of their face, the size of their ears, the amount of hair on their head.
it is my skin color not my hair color or the shape of my ears which causes me to be at the receiving end of racism even. and when i'm looking andro wearing gangsta style clothes on the subway.
What other less 'well-worn' tactics do I have to refute the charge?
that's for you to decide and that the tactic reeks of defensiveness. even if you don't mean for it to do so. sorry, it does. but i'm just speaking for me and the people of color i know, ok?
i spent several summers in houston growing up. still have many relatives who live there. and it is still blighted by racism in many, many ways. if not, there would be no reason for black gays and lesbians in houston to have their own black pride, splash.
And I truly feel that I can cherish the non-gay, non-white, and none-male people in my life, despite being different from all of them.
that's great.
Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 02:39 pm (UTC)Also, I have never said that racism doesn't exist or that it's not a significant detrimental influence on how a person-of-color experiences life. I just reject the blanket generalization that all white people are racist by virtue of being white.
Finally, you have assigned me a significant behavioral characteristic based on nothing more than the color of my skin. What does that make you?
Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 03:08 pm (UTC)PLEASE do not go down this road. It is NOT the same thing. You are a white man with loads and loads and gobs and gobs of privilege.
Plus, she wasn't making generalizations based solely on your skin color -- she was basing it on your comments and arguments. And for the record, I am the one who called you (and every other white person) racist.
Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 03:24 pm (UTC)puh-leeze. i have assigned you nothing more than what you have shown.
Re: ...some of my best friends are black...
Date: 2002-08-22 04:31 pm (UTC)I sit here, my blood running cold in my veins. It's an interesting sensation. And my extremities are shaking, especially my forearms and wrists. And I'm feeling nauseous. I'm guessing it's the result of 'fight or flight' hormones surging through my body. I'm literally sickened by this entire conversation.
*deep breath*
I apologize for that last sentence in my previous post. It came out of a sincere feeling that I'm being categorized, and a further feeling of helplessness in the face of that categorization to defend myself.
To qeechee
I'll ask again. What can an anonymous white person (anonymous to you, at least) write in this kind of medium to refute a charge of racism - a defense that you would find acceptable, as clearly mine was not? I've offered the only defense I can think of, short of "Am Not!!!"
I will admit to a lot of things. But not to the charge that I carry and act on "the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others," which is the dictionary.com definition of racism.
To Raybear
I definitely see your point. You're saying that, by virtue of being a member of the priveleged majority, I have the luxury of being able to ignore race. But I don't see how that makes me a racist. Actually, it's kind of damned-if-do, damned-if-don't proposition. If I do judge people by the color of their skin, I'm a racist for forming that judgement. But if I don't judge someone by the color of their skin, I'm a racist for having the luxury to form that judgement.
I'll ask you a similar question. How would a white person behave, or what could they say, to show that he or she isn't racist? And if all white people ARE racist, regardless of their beliefs or actions, doesn't that dilute the meaning of that word to the point that it has no meaning? I mean if both the KKK Grand Wizard and Mother Theresa can be both be considered racist, then 'racist' has no meaning at all.
I have to tell you, this afternoon's experience has only served to instill within me a fear of having these kinds of discussions online at all. Qeechee's reaction, especially, makes me suspect that a conversation about racism can't be held on an intellectual level between members of opposite races until they know one another on a personal level.
I have had such conversations in the past with my friends of other races without fear of being pigeonholed or categorized, and I'm guessing I will continue to do so. But online? With people I don't know? No way!! I think this internet message thread will be my last where race and racism is concerned.
And that's kind of a shame, isn't it?
no subject
Date: 2002-08-23 07:41 am (UTC)How would a white person behave, or what could they say, to show that he or she isn't racist?
This is a hard question for me to answer, since I don't think it's possible for a white person to be cured and not be racist. Instead, I think everyday we have to make choices to go against all the privilege we're giving. To put this in a concrete way, there basically IS nothing you can say that will wash your hands of the problem, and when one attempts to make a list (or just say "am not") it trivializes the problem into a simple black and white problem (no pun intended really), or a good and evil problem. So in a discussion, I'd recommend addressing whatever the issues are related to race in a sensitive and open way, without just saying "I'm not racist". It's not a productive way of dealing with a problem anyway, because you're putting everything on an "other" and no claming any responsibility in trying to fix the problem -- and I believe it's EVERYBODY's responsibility.
And if all white people ARE racist, regardless of their beliefs or actions, doesn't that dilute the meaning of that word to the point that it has no meaning? I mean if both the KKK Grand Wizard and Mother Theresa can be both be considered racist, then 'racist' has no meaning at all.
I understand your point, and it's a compeletely valid concern, but to me racism is a spectrum, not one isolate place of being. So the Grand Wizard and me are both located on the spectrum, just not in the same place. But we were both taught similar things because we're both white people in America.
And that's kind of a shame, isn't it?
That's your choice to no longer engage in these discussions, and I'll of course respect it. But it's not anyone else'e "fault" (which is what I felt you were implying).
You're right about the difficulty in engaging in discussions of race online with someone you don't know, but I think it's possible. However, I find it interesting that you continually chose to reply to Geechee more often that Daniel and I -- two white guys who were trying to share our experience. Chances are, we've thought and experienced the same things. I'm NOT saying that white people can't talk to people of color about race -- I"m saying that white people can't talk articulately about race with people of color until they've done some work to explore what it's like to be non-white in america and analyzed the construction of whiteness. And it's NOT the responsibility of people of color to educate us on these matters -- I firmly believe it's my job as a white person to educate and explore with other white people, continually pushing boundaries and challenging ideas of privilige. We (as white people) should not go to people of color to absolve us of our white privilige.
And in the end, I think that's how I show that I'm "not racist" (by your definition). Or at least not as racist (by my definition).
Ardor, I'm sorry if this discussion caused you physical distress. But to be honest, I think it's important for white people to occasionally experience some of the sensations of extreme discomfort, since most of the time in life, we don't have to. Also, I highly recommend all the suggested readings made by other folks in this discussion, and I really would love to know what you think of some of them. I'm always open for more discussion -- I will be thinking more about privilege v. racism and my use of the words and whether the contexts are too strong.
no subject
Date: 2002-08-23 01:46 pm (UTC)I grew up gay in a southern blue-collar city (Beaumont, TX). I lived in a constant state of discomfort until I came out at the age of 25 or 26, and it took another decade before I was comfortable enough to be 'out' in all aspects of my life, including with my family and at work. To this day, however, I still watch how I act in public, especially with Sugarbear. I'm just today, this very moment, realizing that part of me has assumed that all straight people are homophobes, so I have adjusted my behavior appropriately to prevent a negative reaction. Sound familiar? I might claim that I don't think all straight folks are homophobic, but my behavior belies that. The last remaining vestiges of my internalized homophobia are based on the assumption that all straight people are homophobic.
By virtue of being oppressed by some, I assume all are oppressive, and therefore oppress myself to avoid oppression.
So now I have a choice. Do I retain that assumption and let it dictate how I live the rest of my life? Or do I let go of that assumption and rob it of the oppressive hold it has had on my self-esteem and behavior?
Not a very hard decision, is it?
I vow that, starting today, I will no longer edit my behavior around my friends and lover when we're in public. I shouldn't care how strangers judge me, but I can't stop caring until I stop assuming every straight person is out to judge and/or hurt me. That assumption has had a powerful hold on me of which I was completely unaware. Now I know, and I can put it behind me.
What an epiphany!!