Its a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world

[raybear]

I need to come out about something. I really, really dislike the use of the word "tranny/trannie". I'm not even talking about that Project Runway dude. I'm talking about my friends and neighbors.

I'm more okay if its used to describe some sort of event/space/concept that is about being intentionally provocative, like "Trannyshack" in SF. I'm not okay with it being used a general noun or descriptor of a category of people, e.g. "you could come, its full of trannies!!" or even things like "tranny yoga class" or "tranny dance night." Even if this is supposedly being used as a positive selling point. If a trans person uses it self-referentially, I don't notice as much, since I respect any homos right to call themselves a fag, a dyke, a lesbian, a queer, etc. But non-trans people saying it really gives me the willies the most. Its like all the gross fetish buttons get lit up on my emotional switchboard.

So, I'm curious to know what others think.

[Poll #1226144]

Please don't be shy about checking any box, as all of them are things I've thought myself while pondering this question.

Comments

[sinsense.livejournal.com]

I've had friends -- very good friends -- disagree with my use of the term "queer," and especially with my use of "queermosexual," for good reasons. I like those debates, because they have to do with the reclamation of an old slur, and the divide between daily practice and academic theory. "Tranny," though, doesn't strike me in the same way. I checked the "dyke" box, in part because -- and maybe I'm biased on this -- I think of lesbians as a more embattled group, just because of a certain disempowerment lesbians face as women. Therefore, when someone reclaims a slur when referring to them, there is more tension, more danger behind it. Does that make sense? Like, if someone calls me a queer, I actually feel less fear and irritation than if they call me a dyke, because to call me a dyke is to point out my femaleness. "Tranny," to me, signals the same thing, a pointing out of the (disempowered) difference.

It's also got a ring of the diminutive. Like how Judith Butler noted that people called her "Judy" when they wanted to discount her opinion; it makes transpeople something funny or flip or trendy. And while I agree that transpeople can be all of those things (in fact, I think you are), I don't know about referring to a whole group that way, because it seems dismissive.

I've noticed that I'm using a lot of "dis" words here -- forgive my nerdiness, but I think it's because "tranny" inherently feels like a dis to me.

At the same time, one of the things I've noticed about "queer" is that younger people tend to be easier with it. I checked the "old/unhip" box because I recognize that I might be old and unhip myself. I'm just not fabulous enough for tranny, I guess. (Seriously, though, it icks me out hard.)

[gender-euphoric.livejournal.com]

a reaction to how sometimes other people can still be insensitive and flippant about trans people in their effort to be supportive
ding ding ding.

Whenever some non-trans person uses 'tranny', I'm reminded of Kaia Wilson of former-team dresch/butchies fame, in response to people questioning her support of michfest---"We <3 Trannies."

[vfc.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone I know who's trans use the word tranny. The only time I've heard it used is by somewhat clueless straight (and gay, come to think of it) people and the tone in their voices/writing is generally one of ire, disgust or condescension. Therefore, I don't really have any positive connection with the word and, on more than one occasion, have spoken up against its use in the aforementioned scenarios.

[trooper6.livejournal.com]

1, I don't think there is a trans community effort to reclaim the word...so it isn't the same as fag/dyke/queer.

But for me there is something even bigger going on (I checked other).

Tranny is still an active and socially acceptable slur, even in the queer (but not trans) community....which makes the reclaiming of it not exactly possible.

Let me be more specific--I have never seen a Jerry Springer show entitled queer/fag/dyke anything. He often has shows titled: When Tranny's Attack. "Tranny Porn" is not produced by or for transpeople...it is pure fetish, and fetish in a creepy way...and it is used all the time, it is in wide circulation. Christian Siriano was quite telling with his "Hot Tranny Mess" -- which was clearly a negative thing in his lingo, as opposed to fierce hotness. Because Trannys are hot messes...tying into the image of the tall, manly, non-passing, ugly transwoman...who is probably also a prostitute.

The ubiquity of the use of tranny...makes it unable to be reclaimed at the moment. You need to have some room of usage to reclaim something...and we don't. Our big radical group is called Transgender Menace, not Tranny Menace. At Michigan it is called Camp Trans, not Tranny Camp. We aren't trying to reclaim that word. Rather we've created new words (transgender, genderqueer, intersex) that we are trying to get into wider circulation, and we are trying to reclaim different old words (transexual without the two s's).

Tranny, diminutive, dissmissive, fetishized tranny is not being reclaimed. And the fact that unlike queer/dyke/fag...tranny is used to describe a particularly potent fetish commodity system (porn/prostitution) that is hurled upon transwomen cannot be underestimated. That is a powerful reason why that word will not be reclaimed anytime soon. No one loved fag before it was reclaimed. There are entire industries of transphobic/transfetishist that love the term...that embrace the term...and wield it as a term of sexualized power over. Embracing the term will not do anything to change how they use that term or change its meaning for them.

this resonates with me

[gender-euphoric.livejournal.com]

yeah, and what you are saying about what "tranny"-as-a-slur means, that is who in particular is being marked with that word, well that all makes the genderqueer/ftm "reclamation" of that word especially absurd.

I mean, I don't even particularly like calling myself a fag, even though I generally am gay. I've never had the word flung as a slur towards me.

Re: this resonates with me

[trooper6.livejournal.com]

Indeed. FtM's really don't have much room to reclaim the word "Tranny" since that word doesn't tend to be used against FtMs. Can't reclaim a word that isn't really being used against you in the first place.

[wearemany.livejournal.com]

wait, are we supposed to be answering what we think your reason for not liking it is or our own?

[raybear.livejournal.com]

ah, yes, that was a tad confusing. the idea is that picking why i'm uncomfortable with the word is really showing why the pollster is or isn't uncomfortable with the word.

[penpusher.livejournal.com]

There's transgender and transexual... and I'm never really sure if "tranny" applies to both or one more than the other, or whether both those terms are viable.

I wasn't even aware that "tranny" was a specific slur, as opposed to a very loose definition.

To me, it's not the word, it's more who is saying it and what they mean by it. Are they intending to use it to hurt, to be insulting or to cut someone down, or are they unaware that this word is considered hurtful by the people it's supposed to be describing?

Ultimately, everyone's vocabulary should be bigger and better and people should choose the words they use with more care and sensitivity. But we look to specific groups to know what those words should be. It's tricky in many cases, because often the word that is acceptable to be used by people within the group could be frequently used, while people outside of the group are discouraged or forbidden to use it.

Of course, that goes back to my first point about how a word gets used. I'm somewhat opposed to "banning words," as a rule. I'm more about learning the meanings of words and learning when it's appropriate to use them.

We should all have more respect for each other, and that requires listening to groups to know how they feel about such topics.

[trooper6.livejournal.com]

"Tranny" is interesting in that it doesn't tend to be used by people within the group. It isn't like queer/fag/dyke at all. While some transfolk may use the word, it is not a generic in-group term. So people using it for all their tranny porn didn't get it by looking to the transcommunity to figure out which words are appropriate.

And generally, it isn't the case that insiders use a word first then get offended when people outside start using it. Generally it is some sort of process or attempted process of reclamation...some sort of coping mechanism for dealing with oppression. Fag/Dyke/Queer/Nigger/Guinzo/etc...those were slurs made by outsiders first. Used as epitaphs of hate. And ubiquitous. Insiders start picking up the word in order to try and take some of the sting out of it...or in bitter irony...or to try and gain some sort of twisted control of their lives. This is not what outsiders are doing when they pick up that word...even if they aren't bigoted people.

Lastly, I don't give a hoot about intentions. And I think relying on them as a marker of something being okay or not is a problem. First off, people lie about there intentions all the time--even to themselves. Secondly, if we make intentions the important thing, then it all becomes about judging the person who said whatever. You are a bad person because you have bad intentions...you are a good person because you have good intentions. I'm not interested in judging a person who says jacked up things. I'm not interested in if they meant it or not...I'm interested in the action and the result.

By focusing on intent we end up shutting down dialog. For example, somebody says something racist. I say, "Hey, that was a racist thing that you just said." Automatically I get, "No it wasn't racist, because I'm not racist." "Or, no it wasn't racist because I didn't intend for it to be racist"-- which generally then means "I'm not racist."

I never said you* were racist. I don't know if you were racist. I don't know what you intended. You may not even know what you intended. You can still be a good, happy person. But...that thing you said? Racist. Note it and move forward.
(*generic you, not you penpusher)

It's like, if I run you over with my car, it doesn't really matter to you if I meant to or not...you are still in the hospital. And me saying I didn't mean it doesn't magically erase your injuries.

[penpusher.livejournal.com]

You're equating a phyisical injury with a 3000 pound vehicle with the use of a word. Maybe that's overstating the issue on your part.

A lot of the time, when a word gets into mainstream vocabulary, people don't know where it came from, who coined it and for what purpose. That's one of the interesting things about language in general and English in particular; the fact is it is a living, changing growing language that ebbs and flows constantly.

I didn't meant to imply that the word in question was coined by someone within the group. I'm not that familiar with the history of the word to know anything about it, which is why I stated what I did and also why I didn't vote in the poll.

By focusing on intentions we end up creating dialog, as we are doing here. for example, somebody says something racist. I say, "hey, that was a racist thing you just said, and here's why..."
the response would be "Oh, I understand and won't do that again."

The point being, you can't know everything; you have to be taught and you have to understand. That's the point of discussion.

[magdalene1.livejournal.com]

Christian Siriano annoyed me on many levels.

[unscrambled.livejournal.com]

I should have checked "other," (I checked "like your reaction") because I think when cisgender people use the word it's a lot more like when butch/masculine gay men call each other bitches. Guess what dude, you don't get to use that word like that.

Did I tell you about my ex who continues (after many conversations) to call someone that she dated "The Tranny?" I feel like the word tranny is used by cisgender people in this way, a way that centers someone's trans-ness in a way that's objectifying (your example of "you'll be comfortabe, it's full of trannies!" is a telling one).

[trooper6.livejournal.com]

Tranny is also dehumanizing.

I'm not a person. I'm not a man or a woman. I'm a Tranny. And not in a fabulous genderqueer sort of way either.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes. And, that "tranny" is the most important thing someone should know about a person.

I think there are ways that cisgender people use better words but still center other people's gender in this way (usually in a way that is sexuaized, but that is a different topic under the subheading Burns My Ass). But "tranny" is usually when it's at its worst.

[riverafire.livejournal.com]

I picked "kinda justified..." and "a reaction to insensitive and flippant..." as my short answer. My long answer is that naming is a matter of individual choice that I don't believe requires any justification. I identify as a queer black woman, and you would not believe how many people have argued that it is problematic that I identify as such. Getting stuck in specific categories bugs me enough, but if conversation demands that I pick a self-referent, I'll be damned if anyone else gets to define what that is. Personally, I wish it was as simple as just being me and letting my social/emotional/sexual interactions unfold as they will. But alas, people are so often very enamored of their categories.

Being supportive is understanding the language

[qvalentine.livejournal.com]

I think that part of being a supportive friend of someone who has changed their life in any way and would like the appropriate labels as such is to be as sensitive and willing to change with the person as you can. I think of you as a man, I don't think of you as the change you took or the course of your life that you choose. You are you, I am not you. You are the person I would ask, hey- do you want me to think of you as Trans or something else? It's my job to consider you as such, because it's my job to change with you and consider what you want. If it is important to you, that is the word I will use. I have a lot of friends who have varied lifestyles. I just asked my best friend who has no idea what her sexuality is if her sperm donor should be referred to as such or should I call him something else when talking about it? Since we are both very good friends with him it seems strange to refer to him as anything other than our friend, who also will be the biological father of my friend's future baby. It's funny how I have to give him more of a label than that, since it's diminutive to consider how much he is giving to her as anything more than miraculous, and fitting it into a word like donor seems ridiculous. The way the word Tranny rolls off the tongue does seem diminutive somehow, as if it's flippant or cute or catchy, but I understand why that may be a good thing or why that is just one reading of it. I really think we need to be careful and understand how these labels work, and how people can be more supportive in their labeling of someone else's identity.

When I see the word tranny I don't really know what it means. The signifier is transgender? The signifier is what?
I'm not sure it's a good way to communicate the ideas behind the word, even to someone like me who is "in the know" about such things and "hip" to the words surrounding the subject.

Re: Being supportive is understanding the language

[raybear.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I'm not even exactly sure what the signifier of "tranny" is either -- amongst those who use it derisively, its generally meant towards transexual women. In the context among my peers that led me to make this poll, it seems to be a more umbrella use of "transgender folk", both medically transitioning and not, pre- or post-, and more often genderqueer female-bodied people and FTMs. Which is part of the rub for me, I think I figured out, thanks to the comments discussion -- its a group of primarily FTM-based community reclaiming a word that is primarily used against MTFs.

[thirdreel.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if it's just like anything, because every word has its history and associations. Tranny might seem less loaded, because (maybe I'm naive here) but I don't think it's something that, say, is yelled out of a passing car. If shouting the word "queer" is a performance that dominates, then reclaiming that word takes away from its power--"Yeah, I am a queer, got a problem with it?"

But the derogatory use of "tranny" is not, at least to my knowledge, generally a performance of intimidation, but a performance of ridicule. "So then he gets the hooker up to his room and finds out... he got a tranny!" In a case like that, reclaiming the word doesn't subvert the ridicule, but plays along with it.

And it's tricky, because that is part of the dialogue. When I was first coming out, I found the best way to get people over it was to invite them to play along with the joke. It happened around the time of the Joel Schumacher Batman movies, so usually the joke was about my massive crush on Chris O'Donnell. And yet I can see the "tranny" joke being too widespread, too generalized, for it to catalyze a cisgendered person's comfort with transgendered friends.

[raybear.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting differentiation, between the intimidation and the ridicule aspects of the use of the word. Because its not so much that the word itself is an epithet, its that the entire concept of being a transexual is what's so horrifying/hilarious/upsetting/entertaining/sexually alluring.

trooper6 had another observation too about how its also a word historically used primarily towards MTFs, not FTMs, and so the question of 'reclaiming' among certain FTM and FTM-related communities seems somewhat at odds to me, versus MTFs who use the word and it doesn't really elicit much of a reaction from me at all.

[mrmturtle.livejournal.com]

Tranny sounds like granny. i never use tranny or trannie. i just don't like the sound of it. btw, i have always disliked "lesbian" as well. it sounds like less being. never used it.
tranny is casual and familiar, and sounds a bit demeaning. I use Trans and queer to describe myself. i don't like cisgender either. probably because i used to pronounce it incorrectly and it came out more like sisgender and that sounded like cyst.

[raybear.livejournal.com]

i don't really like cisgendered either! it sounds like the latin name for a disease. i've never really had much issue with bio-male or bio-female as terms, probably because male and female have always felt pretty technical and medical anyway.

[gotmce99.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it's a regional thing. I've been told that in some parts of San Francisco, it's a normal thing that people call themselves, but it makes me feel icky every damn time.

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[(Anonymous)]

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